Sandra Stewart Holyoak: This begins an interview with Mr. Edward Sanderson Hoe III on June 22, 1999 in Brant Beach, New Jersey. Mr. Hoe, I would like to thank you for taking time today to be part of our Oral History Archives project, and to begin the interview, I would like you to tell me a little bit about when you were born and where, and then start with your father and tell me about him.
Edward Hoe: Okay. I was born [on] September 21, 1919 in Brooklyn, New York … [I] graduated from Valley Forge Military Academy in 1937 and Rutgers University in 1941, with a BA in economics … My family came from Piscataway and their home was at the corner of River Road and Hoes Lane. The family had been there for … probably, sixty or seventy years. I don't know who they bought it from, or what the start of it was, but, they owned most of the land … up to where you make your first turn left. [I] can't think of the farm that was up there, but … it, part of it was … right near the … football field and I presume they ran as far as, I don't know how far … They went towards New Brunswick. I always thought of it as New Brunswick. My grandmother had her banking in New Brunswick and … did most of their shopping in New Brunswick ... It was very nice to have a grandmother there, even when I was in college, because it was a place I could … if I had to, borrow a couple of extra bucks. [laughter] … My dad was born [in] 1892 and … he went to Rutgers Prep and after Rutgers Prep, he actually, he went into the army shortly after that … He was commissioned a lieutenant. I can't think of the name of the Jersey outfit, New Jersey out[fit] … New Jersey whatever it was and he had met my mother outside of Philadelphia when he … oh, no, he went, he was ready to go overseas. There were thirteen officers and they were all ready to go overseas and they came up and said, "We have to have one officer. We want a volunteer, because we have to send somebody to Philadelphia, because they're having a flu epidemic up there, and we need help up there." And, of course, nobody volunteered so they drew straws and he went to Philadelphia, very unhappily, because he wanted to go overseas. So, in fact, after the war he never really wanted to talk about it, or even ... have many discussions on his life in the army. But, I'm sure he was a good officer.
SSH: How long did he serve in the military?
EH: Oh, a couple of years. Yeah, I think it was a couple of years in the military. I've forgotten exactly when he got out, but ... well, after the Armistace in … 1918, you know. Then he married my mother around Christmas time and I arrived in September.
SSH: Right on time. [laughter]
EH: Right on time. So ... my dad worked for many years, of course, he hit the Depression. He was in Wall Street on the day of the big, bad crash.
EH: He was working on Wall Street and the outfit he was with, forgot what their name is, but they ... he got out away from them and they were sued and some of them were put in jail for doing something he didn't know anything about and then, after that, he had a number of jobs. He worked for DuPont for a long while, mostly in selling. But, in the '30s ... it was tough, 'cause things were tough. He had a number of jobs in the '30s.
SSH: Did you live in Piscataway?
EH: No, I'm sorry. We lived in Westfield, New Jersey.
SSH: In Westfield.
EH: My family moved out there from Brooklyn in 1921.
SSH: Oh, okay.
EH: So, we were only in Brooklyn a couple of years. I don't remember much about Brooklyn.
SSH: After your father and mother were married, did they move to Brooklyn?
EH: They went to Brooklyn first, because he was working on Wall Street and it was simple to jump on the … whatever you jumped into then. I don't think, he was on Bedford Avenue. I don't think you want to be living there now, but, anyway …
SSH: Do you think he did not want to talk about the war because he did not go overseas?
EH: Because he didn't go, yes, he was always embarrassed. I used to try to get him, because, every year we had a Memorial Day parade in the town of Westfield and I always had to be in the parade. [I have] forgotten whether I played the drums, or the bugle, or whatever it was, and I always was mad, because, my father would never go in the parade. Finally, he did go into one parade, but he wasn't very happy about it. He ... never did join the Legion, or maybe he did, long enough to go in the parade. [laughter] So, he was, he was quite a guy, very honest guy, sincere, a loyal father. He and my mother were happily married, I would say, 'till he died in 1969, right after the first shot to the moon, I guess.
SSH: Oh, really?
EH: Yes, I remember seeing that with him and my mother lived to be ninety-six or ninety-seven. She died in, I think, '92 or '93, I'm not a hundred percent sure which.
SSH: Can you tell me a little about your mother? Was she was born in Philadelphia?
EH: No, my mother was born in Toledo, Ohio. My grandfather was a minister in the Episcopal Church, and at that …when he was out there he was going to divinity school. He decided to go … to divinity school long after he, he was thirty-five before he graduated from divinity school. Before that, he'd been in South America trying to build a railroad and then he and his brother came to Florida and tried a couple of enterprises but, they went down the drain. So, he finally decided to go into the ministry, and he left his wife … or his, yes, I guess, his wife was in England. Then after he graduated … she came over and my mother was born in Toledo and the next thing he did he had a … on the Hudson River up in … not too far north of the border … My grandmother died up there, she was … I guess, she had cancer. She's buried up there now outside of the church and I've been up there to see her grave. And then he got the church in Merchantville, New Jersey, just outside of Camden, I think that was the next church … He met a gal named (Emma Knight?), who had not been married before and was big in the church there and he ended up marrying her and I sort of knew her as Grandmother all the rest of my life, or her life ... He died around 1935. She died, gosh, I don't know, ten, fifteen years later.
SSH: So, outside of Camden is where your mother grew up?
EH: Yes, no, she grew up, basically, around Camden, well, they were up in Marlboro, New York. That's where the church was. She was … I guess … well, she was brought up there until her mother died, really, I think. So, she could have been up there for, she was born 1896, so she was up there when her mother died. She must have been twelve or thirteen. So, then she, I had an aunt whose husband was in the military and travelling all over the world and my mother came back to New Jersey and went to St. Mary's School down in Burlington and she got through about a year and, that's right, and then my aunt got married and my mother had to go home and take care of her father before he got married again. So, she actually never graduated from ... high school or prep school, or whatever it was. But, she was … good at Latin, thank goodness. [laughter] [She] always helped me out with my Latin.
SSH: Was her family English?
EH: English, yes. Yes. They ... my grandfather was born in England.
SSH: Do you know which part?
EH: No. His … father was a … also in the ministry in England. Can't think of what it was, I'm trying to think where they lived. But, I go over there, was over there a couple years ago, probably go over this year again. I have cousins and …
SSH: That is what I was going to ask you.
EH: Yes, I have a lot of relatives over there. Because my mother's father, my mother's mother, no, my mother's father had five brothers and six sisters and my mother's mother had five sisters and six brothers. So, we had, you know, when I was growing up we always had people coming through from China or Africa or somewhere and spending time with us in Westfield. One time, one of my cousins, who I knew quite well, his name was Tony Stables, and he was a colonel with ... I think he'd been attached to Chiang Chai Shek at one time or no, … somebody like that. And he came over before the 4th of July and he gave me five dollars and I took the five dollars and went out and spent it all on fireworks. And my mother was very unhappy because ... you know, I'd spent all my money, because they were (Torries?), I guess. [Laugh]
SSH: They still thought of you as the colonist, right?
EH: Yes. Then also my father's family came from, the Hoes originally came from, I think it was Rhode Island. They moved into Long Island. And one of my great-greats, I guess that was on my father's side … yes … it was on my father's side. His name was Captain (Jack Seaman?) and he was a privateer. And they weren't actually pirates. They were, they went out and they boarded boats and whatever they did and I told this story one day in the fifth grade. They wanted … everybody to talk about their past, I guess, or their life, or something and … that's what I told them. My grandmother heard about it and she was furious.
EH: That's right. I don't know if there is any more about my family.
SSH: Do you have any brothers or sisters?
EH: Oh, yes. I have a sister, [she] lives up in Monmouth Beach.
SSH: How much younger than you is she?
EH: She's about seven, six or seven years younger. Right now, she's only six years younger. No, next month she'll be six years younger, for a month, for a month or so.
SSH: Did she go to Rutgers or NJC?
EH: No, no … she went to ... I don't know, she had troubles, in schools, and she spent a lot of time with my mother and father, and she married a guy and he travelled all over the country. They lived out in Minneapolis, they lived in New Orleans, they lived in Tennessee … Finally, he walked out one day and a year or so later they, no, yes, a year or so later were divorced. No, I'm not sure. Well, I don't know. But anyway, what happened was about … he married another woman, [and] the other woman died. So, now his social security was available and my sister used to figure she'd get two, three hundred dollars a month. Ended up she was getting over eleven hundred a month, so that was a help. Yes, right now she has a boyfriend. [laughter] I don't know whether I should put this in. [laughter]
SSH: Well, let us talk a little about you when you came to came Westfield and went to grade school.
EH: Then I went to junior high school. I graduated from junior high school. In the ninth grade, we had that then, and then I went to Westfield High School for about a year and then I went to Valley Forge Military Academy for the last two years.
SSH: Why did you pick Valley Forge?
EH: Well, my father liked the military, probably was a big reason for it, and they felt I needed some … well, he liked military. I guess, he figured, maybe, I would end up staying in the military.
SSH: Oh, okay. A career direction.
EH: Yes, but …
SSH: Did you enjoy Valley Forge Military Academy?
EH: Oh, yes. Yes, I enjoyed it. I liked military life …
SSH: What were your favorite subjects? What did you find that you really had an aptitude for?
EH: … Well, history, economics, business, that's basically what I took. That's the same … what I took in college to get a degree.
SSH: After Valley Forge, did you pick Rutgers as where you wanted to go?
EH: Well, also my father knew the … registrar, so, I got into Rutgers.
SSH: I thought maybe your grandmother was promoting Rutgers.
EH: No, no, no. She wasn't. That was Father who got, you know, he got me into the registrar. I can't even remember his name now but, that's how I got into Rutgers, really.
SSH: Had you applied, or thought of going anywhere else?
EH: I think I had applied … whatever schools I applied to they were a little bit … I've forgotten, I'm trying to think, one down in Maryland, or Virginia that I applied to.
SSH: Washington and Lee?
EH: No. It wasn't that; starts with an "M" I think.
SSH: You can add that to the transcript later. One question I do have about coming into Rutgers in 1938 …
SSH: '37. Did you, coming out of the military school into Rutgers, go into advanced ROTC, or did you have to go into the regular ROTC?
EH: No, I went into regular ROTC, and I didn't follow it through.
SSH: You did not?
EH: No. I was in it for the two years that I had to be in and I didn't go through with it. Right now, maybe I should have and maybe I shouldn't have. If I had I might have been dead, so … of course, I know, what the heck's his name, the guy that's so active in Rutgers …
SSH: Vince Kramer?
EH: Vince Kramer, yes. I know Vince quite well. Because, I used to ... Oh, I know, after the war … my wife was in the entertainment business and she used to do some work with him.
EH: He was looking for speakers and things like that. I've forgotten whether she ever sold him in any, but she used to work with him. That's how I got to know him again.
SSH: When you came into Rutgers as a young man, did you get involved in sports and different clubs?
EH: Yes. I played a hundred and fifty pound football one year and I … got a letter my freshman year, I got a thing in tennis. I played a lot of tennis. But, beyond that, then I had problems with my studies, so …
SSH: You had to knuckle down? [laughter]
EH: Yes. I had to knuckle down, and they wanted me to, too.
SSH: How long did you stay at Rutgers? Were you drafted while you were still at Rutgers?
EH: No. I came … I was number three in my hometown in January of … in the first draft of January 1941 … I applied for relief until I graduated, so, I did graduate. I didn't have to go back … I mean, I probably never would have gone back, or I don't know, but I probably never would have. So, then … it was in August of that year I went into the service and I was on my way to Trenton when they announced over the phone … We all thought we were going for a year and they announced it was a year and a half. [laughter] Then I got from there to Fort Dix and met a graduate of Rutgers, who had been a friend of mine … sort of a friend … and I don't remember his name to this day at all. He said, "Ed," he said, "I got a clerk's job here. Don't worry I'll keep you here. I'll keep you to work at Fort Dix and you don't have to go South." Next thing I know, I'm peeling potatoes on a train going to Atlanta, Georgia. [Laughter] So, that wasn't too …
SSH: It did not work?!
EH: Well, listen, I … I'm alive and that's what I always say, you know, I made it … I didn't get … I lost a lot of men in the war and … in fact, I'm losing one today or tomorrow. He just had his leg amputated. I mean, he's eighty-two, so you have to expect these kinds of things. I had my … what do you call it … the guy who runs, … [I] can't think what he was, anyway, he was … he just died about a month ago. He was from Maine. Most of these people are from Maine, because, I was in a Maine regiment.
SSH: Oh, you were?
EH: Yes. The 103rd, mostly Maine, all good people. Not say all of them, but, most of them. I didn't have too much trouble.
SSH: When you went from Trenton to Fort Dix, what were you assigned to in Fort Dix?
EH: [Laugh] I don't know what … training company number, something, probably. I don't know. Then I went to Atlanta to a training company.
SSH: What were you being trained in?
EH: Infantry. Then I was assigned to the 30th Division, which was from … I've repeated this … which was from South Carolina. They were from … what's that fancy town in South Carolina …
EH: Charleston. And I was in Fort Jackson, South Carolina. So, we were sent up there to be military police. So … we arrived up there in the dead of night; it was cold and damp. We got in and found out that we were not going to be military police, we were going in the infantry.
SSH: Oh, really?
EH: So, they counted up one, two, three; A Company. One, two, three; B Company. One, two, three; C Company. So, I ended up in A Company, as 30th Infantry Division, 118th Infantry … I decided I didn't want to … excuse me … I decided I didn't want to stay in the infantry so … and they were looking for temporary duty in the military police. So, I applied for that and got a job in the military police.
SSH: Were you trained for that?
EH: No. I just went down and they handed me a pistol, an MP badge, and said, "You're now an MP." [laughter] … Part of the time I drove the drunk wagon that went around picked up all the drunks every, … wherever they were reported. We'd pick them up and bring them back to the post.
SSH: This is in Fort Jackson?
EH: This was in Fort Jackson, South Carolina. So, I was there. And yes, we used to, when outfits were going to town they'd put us on the busy corners in the city to direct traffic. I never liked to be out in one of these quiet areas with nothing going so, this time I jumped out and I was at the corner of the main street and the other main street.
SSH: Meeting and King Streets?
EH: I'd hear these sirens, which meant there was another group coming. Then I'd have to get everybody out of the cars, and the lights, and the oh … So, that was my … I did that for a while then …how the devil did I get out of town? I guess when I got accepted to Fort Benning after school.
SSH: So, that was OCS?
EH: Yes. That was OCS, yes, and that was tough. You never knew where you stood and they wouldn't tell you where you stood. Until the day they had the graduation ceremony and they told you the night before that you either made it or you hadn't made it. I'm sure it's not as … wasn't as tough then as it is now, because they needed officers. I think one time I also, while I was there I applied to get into the paratroopers. [laughter] Fortunately … I didn't. I've forgotten whether I even got [tested], but, that didn't work out. So, from … there I … after I graduated from there, I was sent to the Forty-third Division out in California. I went to Fort (Ord?), California … as a second lieutenant and I was assigned to C Company, 103rd Infantry, which was … they were excellent people, really, all of them … Then within a couple of weeks, I guess it was, didn't get home or anything, we loaded up on a ship, not a very big one and we went out of the harbor there.
SSH: Out of San Francisco?
EH: Yes, out of San Francisco. I forget what the harbor is called. Anyway, we hit rough weather when we got out. I forgot what my job was, but, it was checking on the mess, I guess. So, they sent me down, that was part of my job, forgotten what else I had to do, but, I went down to check the mess and that was … because the men were all down below and it was hot and steamy and not very nice … Many of them were pretty sick. So, we're on that thing for … I think, they escorted us for about two days and then they dropped off the escorts and we went by ourselves for another twenty-five days to New Zealand.
SSH: No port at all in between?
EH: No, no. So, we got to New Zealand and they sent us out to camp outside of town and we started training there. And then, eventually, I guess by that … oh, I also had … I got a job working on the docks. They needed help, an officer, to command the dock group, so they sent me down to tell them how to load boats.
SSH: Did you have experience in this?
EH: [laughter] No, I didn't have experience.
SSH: What were your dock hands like, were they civilians or military personnel?
EH: No, they were military. They were people in my outfit.
SSH: Oh, okay.
EH: Yes, most of them as I recall. I don't recall whether we had some New Zealanders, probably we did, but, I don't recall that.
SSH: What was the first thing you did when you hit the first port, after this many days at sea?
EH: Well, until they got us in the camp, we didn't do much … I don't think we got out of the … until they got us in camp. I don't think they got us out. I don't think we were out until they got us into camp, then we came back into town and that was a little while.
SSH: What had you done to entertain yourself, to keep the troops' morale up for that many days at sea?
EH: Give them leave. [laughter] Oh, you mean at sea. Oh, they had all sorts of things going on. They had, I don't know if they had movies, but, they had bands playing … Well, the band was … I think we had a band on the boat. Probably, the 103rd Band … Yes, they had … but, it was just the guys just lulled around on the decks playing cards and that's about what they did all day long.
SSH: Did you have to stand any watch, or was it the navy that did that?
EH: No, I … think the navy stood the watch. I was on call for the … for any dining problems.
SSH: Did you have many?
EH: No. I can just remember that one, that's the only one that I really remember … Then we got … we were out in (Warkworth?), New Zealand and the fellows were taking leaves and so forth, they were entitled to so many days. Then we … then I had problems with the men, too. Because, we were there just long enough the first and second … we were there twice. We went up to New Guinea and then we came back for another rest and a … rescheduling to go up to the Philippines, and the guys were there too long. I had guys getting married and I had to "okay" them, which I did not like to do. So, obviously, and some didn't get married, some of the girls got pregnant and I got to … I had to be involved in the middle of all of these things. This was, you know, my responsibility, which was …
SSH: How did you handle things like that?
EH: I used to talk to them. That was about all I could do … In fact I saw, no, I won't mention it … In fact, I know one of my men had twins, the girl had twins, and he took off and went home. I've forgotten whether he was wounded or what, but, he didn't take her with him. So, we were there and we'd train out in the jungles up there … if you want to call them jungles … they were … The food was good, the food was excellent. We used to get big … these big things to carry the milk and all the cream was on the top. We used to go down and take … spoonfuls off to … it was like eating whipped cream, I guess.
SSH: Were you commanding this entire unit?
EH: Well, when I first went there I was commanding one of the platoons. Then, … oh, then, my company commander at that time, his name was (Jim Brodie?), came from Texas; he was a rancher. In fact, I talked to him a couple of years ago and he's a foreman of a ranch down there of about, I don't know, four hundred thousand acres, or whatever it is, one of the biggest in Texas.
SSH: Sounds like the King Ranch.
EH: I don't think it's the King Ranch, but it's a big one … His … mother or father had died and he had to go home, that was it. So, he told me that he wanted me to be company commander. So, that's how I got the job as company commander. So, I was that …
SSH: Now when you first left New Zealand, where did you go?
EH: I went to New Guinea. Well, the first time we went up to New Caledonia.
SSH: What were you doing?
EH: [laughter] No, we were doing scouting duty, I think it was more training than anything else. They'd hear there was a spy or a boat [that] had just landed twenty miles up and through the woods, and ten miles this way, in the middle of the night … and they got us up there and we go up there and nobody ever found anything. So, I think everybody suspected that it was just training. We did that … I don't … forgotten how … that was the first time. I know we went back to New Zealand and then we went … oh, yes … where the heck were we? … Then I think the second time they sent us to New Guinea. That was where we … and they sent us way out in the jungles in New Guinea. And we went across the (Drinimor?) River, I don't know how far it was, but we went and went and went and went. And we got so far out that … Bob Hope was coming and a couple of guys wanted to go, and I said, "I don't know." So, I called the company up and I said, you know, "Can I send two guys down?" "Yes, they can come, let them walk." So, these guys took off for about three days, the two of them. They went down to hear Bob Hope. So, then, after that, we were ready to go to the Philippines and that's where we loaded.
SSH: When you were on these stops in New Guinea, were you involved in any kind of action at all?
EH: Yes, what there was was out in the woods, there wasn't a lot of it.
SSH: Is this where the spotters from New Zealand were keeping their eye on you?
EH: Probably in that area, too, because there were a lot of them … on the island. I can remember one … I'm not sure, I think it's, I'm not sure if it's that island or not … But, one island where they had Australians … I … the company commander had a tent and he was sleeping in another tent right down the street. Well, this was … just … an officer's tent, a small tent. So, he said, "See if you can find a tent for me." So, I said, "Okay." So, I went down to a friend of mine, whose now dead, who I knew very well, we were both born in Brooklyn and they moved out to Westfield after we did … So, I went down to my friend and I said, "Jack, do you have an extra tent around here? I'm looking for a small tent." He said, "Yeah, it belongs to the battery commander," he was in the artillery. In fact, his artillery supported us during the whole war, his company, his battery, A Battery. So, he said, "But, when I call for it I have to have it back." So, I took it down and it turned out that he didn't want the tent so, I put the tent in the supply tent. So, when Jack called up one day and said "I gotta have that by tomorrow or the next day," whatever it was. I said, "Don't worry, I'll bring it up." So, I go down to the supply tent, our supply sergeant was Jessie Robbins. I said, "Jessie," I said, "remember that tent I gave you a short time ago, I need it back." "I hate to tell you, Captain, I'll tell you what's happened. We had … they told us we had to build a latrine and we had to put a cover around it. So we cut up the tent to make the cover." So, here I am without a tent. So, I went to (Nappy Holmstead?), who was a sergeant, and he was known as (Nappy?) and his forty thieves, I think, so I said to Nappy, I said, "I have to have a small tent." What do you think he'd do, he said, "We don't have one but let's look around." So, he came back later that day and said, "Don't worry, we got one spotted tonight." So, I woke up in the morning and there's tent outside. I said, "Thank goodness." I said to Nappy, I said, "How'd you ever get that tent?" He said, "Well, those two guys must have been surprised when they woke up this morning to find the tent gone." That was about it there, I guess, anything of interest.
SSH: So, when you came back into New Zealand to go to the Philippines, did you know what you were getting into?
EH: Not at the time. Well, we knew we were going somewhere, but we didn't know we were going to end up in the Philippines. So we got on the boat in New Guinea. I don't know how many days we … yes, we went to what was called Lingayen Gulf, that was the second landing. Leyte was the first landing, [which] was in the south, Lingayen Gulf was the main effort. We went up in a troop ship and somewhere along the line we practiced climbing up and down ropes and … Oh, that's …
SSH: Shaun Illingworth, an intern with the Oral History Project, has now joined the interview. You were telling us about the practice of climbing up and down the ropes.
EH: I'm trying to think of some other things, that's … it bothers me … but it seems like …
SSH: Were you at Leyte then?
EH: No, Lingayen Gulf. I'm trying to think … I don't know whether we went to … I'm going to have to backtrack.
SSH: Okay, that is fine.
EH: On the way over we had to stop at Guadalcanal. They needed some replacements. One of our ships had been sunk and there was a whole team that was going to Guadalcanal … I think they only lost one man, he drowned, but the whole team … they lost all their equipment and everything. So, they called us … this must have been, gosh, I don't know whether it was on that long trip over or not. But … we went into Guadalcanal, we were there a couple of weeks. We didn't see too much action, but we did get into the jungles and then we pulled out of Guadalcanal. Then, I think, we went to the Philippines. No, we didn't go to the Philippines either, we went to the Russell Islands. Oh, before the Russell Islands, I have a story … They picked a couple of us to go up and scout the area where we were going, the whole area up in the Philippines … The day before … we were supposed to go, they called up and said that they didn't need me, that I was cut. So, I went to the commander and said, "Look, I want to go, I don't care what, I want to go." "Okay," he says, "you go." So, we went up to, it's called (Sangley?) Point and we went ashore from … I'm not sure whether we got out of destroyers, or small ships, or what. But, we were met by natives in dug-out canoes and they took us ashore and they said that the Japanese were going to attack in the morning, or the next morning, I've forgotten which, from the north. They had found out that this coast watcher was there and they hadn't known it up to that time, but he had … he used to take old Japanese ships and act as a pirate and they'd attack these Japs in these boats and kill them all. One time somebody got back, one of the Japs got back, so they were attacking down, this was like a peninsula, and so, he got us together and he said, "Okay, we've got to defend this … we've called the Marines but tonight we have to defend our front and our back," I guess. Oh, he said, no, he thought the others were going to attack from the front, that was it. So, we all went down to the front, they assigned me a machine gun and two black guys. All I could see of them in the dark was the white of their eyes. It was a Mickey Mouse operation, how you shot the gun and everything. Never had to do it, because the Marines came ashore first. They were … got there and I know one of the guys with me was with the … people that build airfields and so forth. He was a much older guy. He was a lieutenant, (JG Rider?) … I don't know what he was. So, he went up and he rushed down to where they were loading, he grabbed the colonel's hand that command them and said, "Colonel," he said, "the CBs are happy to welcome the Marines ashore." So, I saw him, didn't see him much after that, because then the, they took over. We stayed there for a while and getting ready for the next place. That must have been where we got ready to go to the Philippines … But, he was quite a guy and I can't think of his name, this coast watcher. I've got a book on him somewhere and I can't think what his … I'll find it … He wrote a book after the war about what he did during the war, I think he was a New Zealander, or maybe an Australian … I've forgotten which. Where was I now?
SSH: You were telling us about the training you had volunteered to do for the scouting expedition.
EH: Oh, yes, yes … right. So, we got … we accomplished our mission, and one night they told us that we were out on a point again, some kind of a point, and one of the natives said that he thought that Japanese were going to attack us. So, we're gonna have to leave. He said, "They're all right up there in that hill and they may be able to see us in the moonlight," because the moon was shining right down on the water. So, we said "Okay, we want to get out of here." I've forgotten whether … I guess, there were three of us, because one of the army men went someplace else to check out something else. So, here come these guys in their canoes, so, you know … I want to get out of there. This moon is shining and I figured they can't help but see us. So, they all get in the canoe and they start getting … each one hasn't got the right seat. They all sit in some kind of a special seat. They got that settled and then they had to divide up the paddles. While they're doing all this, we're all sitting there thinking, "Whoa, let's get out of here." Finally, we got out of there, with no trouble.
SSH: What did you have for food on scouting missions like this?
EH: Oh, you know, K-rations or C-rations, whatever they were. Not very good, I lost a lot of weight.
SSH: What did you find, with the natives that were helping you out, with the …
EH: Good, well, the ones that … on this … one thing, about where we were on this island, this guy that ran it, he had other natives from all different islands there. Because, if one native is on an island, he may know how to take this trail, but if he gets on your island he's lost like he'd be in New York City. So, he had a whole bunch of natives, different ones that he would send out, you know, that knew where they were going and he not only did this island, he was doing other islands, that was it. So, he had a bunch of these natives and they all seemed, you know, pretty good. Native women, I don't recall seeing any. We did one time … where was I? I don't know, but, they said there was an airplane coming through and there was a nurse on it. So, all the guys rushed down to see the airplane land and she came out and … [Mr. Hoe cheers].
SSH: You saw very few women then?
EH: No, because … I think it was probably eighteen months, you know, that I was … I've forgotten exactly, up in the islands there, or wherever I was. So, then we helped Lingayen Gulf, eventually, and … we were the last boats out, the furthest out. And we were to take us, I had directions, I had to take my company to, I can't remember the name of the railroad, or something …whatever it was. We all got in the boats and we went through the big battleships in the back and they were firing, and we went through the cruisers and they were firing, and then we went through the destroyers and they were firing. And then we went through this and then they had these things that shot like rockets, through those and then we got closer and the machine guns were firing. And we got out and, really, we had no opposition until we got about ten miles inland … or five miles in, I don't know … five to ten miles inland. And then we ran across … we started running across Japanese. So, from there we ended up … we worked our way inland and we ended up on a sort of a mountain/hill. We climbed up the top of that and the Japs were all down below us and across the way and they were firing at us and we were firing at them … And I had …we had an outpost up there to keep track of what they were doing. They really didn't have the firepower to come and get us … And then they pulled us out.
--------------------------------------END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE--------------------------------------
EH: Oh, yes, yes, they pulled us back and sent us south into Manilla, because we were going, they were going into the Ipo Dam, which was in the southern part of the Philippines. We went through the Wack-Wack country club … I guess we stayed in the Wack-Wack headquarters, I've forgotten whether we had tents or what. But, then we started … these Japs were in caves and they wanted to clear that area out … So, we went into there and that was quite rough going for a few days, that's where I got hit … Then, of course, I was taken out.
SSH: Before you were hit and while you were starting this, can you describe for the tape what it was like there and what were the conditions like?
EH: Well, a lot of jungle-type territory, hills … sand, dirt roads, nothing really. They had like a one-man highway through the, as I recall, maybe that was even …
SSH: Did you find that you were well trained for what you were called upon to do?
EH: By that time, yes, I would say I was well trained.
SSH: Were you still with the people from Maine, mostly?
EH: Yes, yes. Well, I did have one stint where the commander of D Company, which was the mortar company, heavy weapons company, he wanted to, this was when I was a first lieutenant, I guess, he wanted an executive officer, so I went with him for a month. But, then that's … when they called me back to take over the company, now that I think of it. So …
SSH: Now you said that your friend from Westfield, Jack …
SSH: (Ackerson?), did he stay with you, as artillery?
EH: Well, he was always not far. And it was amazing when we got, you know, when we really did get together, which I guess was in … I'm not sure where … But, then we realized that … you know, we were in the … same situation. His father, I think I told you that his father had been in the, he'd been an officer in the artillery, field artillery and my father had been an officer in the infantry, and they met each other in Texas, or somewhere, and then they met each other in Brooklyn. They both moved to Brooklyn. Then these people moved to Westfield, because we moved out there. So, I used to … I didn't see him that regularly, it wasn't that close of a relationship that we had, but it was always, you know, we were going to see them, or they were coming to see us, or something.
SSH: When you were in the Pacific, did you run into any other Rutgers men at all?
EH: Now, you're asking me. I don't think so. Unless I could … somebody comes to mind. The only Rutgers guy I can think of is the guy that wouldn't let me stay at Fort Dix. [laughter]
SSH: When you were hit, were you part of an assault on one of these caves?
EH: No, no. We were up on a hill and we were … they wanted us to … I've forgotten, attack up the hill, or something, I don't know. It was the next day and I got hit that night … Next thing I know, I was in the hospital and there was a doctor there that said, "You know, you're not in that bad a shape." "But," he said, "I'm going to fix your hand," [he] said, "we'll have to send you back home." So, he said, "I can do a graft." So, they grafted on this hand. They grafted this finger on the base of this finger. So, the grafts don't heal in the tropics. [laughter] So, I accepted it. I was ready. I said, "I'm ready to go home. I've had it."
SSH: Were you hit with shrapnel?
EH: Shrapnel, probably, I presume. That's how I got hit in the shoulder. As I said, when I turned around I got hit in the fanny. I don't publish that, don't publish that! [laughter]
SSH: So, how did you come back to the States then? Did you come straight back?
EH: Hospital ship.
SSH: All the way back?
EH: Went back to New Guinea. We went back by a white hospital ship to New Guinea, all the lights on, no escorts, nothing. Just riding along in the middle of the night. The only thing I remember about that trip, it was in March, I think, and the news came over the radio that Roosevelt had died. I think it was around that time, March or early April, I've forgotten which. So …
SSH: What was the reaction on the ship when the news came?
EH: I don't remember. I think everybody was a bit shocked. I don't think anybody was … I don't recall much … reaction to it.
SSH: While you were in the South Pacific, how were your mail and communications?
EH: It was pretty good, mostly. I had a lot of that V-mail. Had a lot of those letters, I did pretty well.
SSH: Had you left someone back in the states that you wrote to regularly?
EH: Yeah, a couple.
SSH: Two different coasts, or both from New Jersey?
EH: Some were down South. [laughter]
SSH: Maybe you should have been in the diplomatic corps.
EH: Probably not. Well, you know who was in the diplomatic corps … that's Bob.
SSH: Right. Tell me, you spoke about the white hospital ship to New Guinea, where did you go from there?
EH: We got to New Guinea and we stayed there a short while and this other small ship loaded up and took us back to San Francisco. That was one where … they had male and female officers. We were upstairs, one of my lieutenants in my company was with me and one other male officer and out of the thirty-some people up there, only three of us were combat wounded. All the rest were either mostly … mental. They did have troops in the bottom … of the boat, so …
SSH: Their time was up and they were able to come home?
EH: Some, well, I think most of them were probably casualties of some kind, I don't know … I've forgotten that. I don't think I had any jobs down in the hole on that … So, then we came into San Francisco.
SSH: How painful was your hand from the graft and everything?
EH: Well, they had it … they had my finger … they left the finger on. The only thing they can do is take the finger off … They're not going to be able to reset it, so, that's the best way to go. So, that's what they told me. So, I had it strung out here with the thing, it was very sore because of the … They put a thread through it and tied it to this … like… plastic thing or something that pulled it all the time. So, it wasn't very comfortable. But, I got back to California and I went to Letterman General Hospital, I guess, is it Letterman, I guess so, in California … When I was there I was just waiting for where they were going to send me. So, I met a guy who was in the Navy. I think he was an ensign, I don't know what he was coming home for. He was being … he was quite a bit older that me. He was a vice-president of … one of the book companies in New York and I can't think of the name, now I can't think of his name. But …we go out one night with his wife to have dinner. They invited me out and it was fine with me. He got a little bit in his cups, so, he decided to talk about the draft dodgers. And he's, "Look at this man here," and pointed at me, you know, and I … He went on and on and on. It was very embarrassing. We finally, I think … I finally got him out. His wife had left. She wouldn't even talk to him. I never saw her again. She was so teed off at him. So, after that, we got into a really fancy train to come home on, one of the new hospital trains. So, I went all the way back to … where'd I go back to? Yes, I must have come back into New Jersey. From there I went to a hospital in Staten Island, (Kryle?) Hospital, no that wasn't (Kryle?), it was an army hospital on Staten Island that's now a nut-house, too, and from there I went to Fort Dix and got out.
SSH: Now where did they do the surgery on your hand?
EH: That's right, I was still in the army, wasn't I?
SSH: Did they do it on the West Coast?
EH: No, they did it in Cleveland, Ohio.
SSH: Oh, so you stopped in Cleveland then, from San Francisco?
EH: No. They sent us out, because I came home and got married, that was it.
SSH: Oh, can you tell us about that?
EH: I came home … My future wife wouldn't marry me before I left. I always complained about all the money that we lost, because I didn't get any allowances for a wife. So, anyway, she was there when …we were married, and, that's right … then I was still having finger problems. I think they had taken the thing off, but it wasn't … I know my wedding picture shows that I just have a band-aid on it. So, from there … that's right, I was still in the army. From there, I guess, we drove out. I had a 1936 Ford convertible sedan. It was classy. Swore my father kept it on blocks the whole time during the war, so, he collected the coupons on it, gas coupons. And we drove out to Cleveland. Her mother thought we were crazy, but … we drove to Cleveland and looked for a place to live. And we looked at a couple of places and one man was going to rent to us and we could use his kitchen, but then he got to thinking about it, he really didn't want us there. So, we went to an old house on Clifton Boulevard in … Lakewood, I think it is, and that was advertised. We went in and there was this very elderly lady and very elderly man, and they said, "Yes, we'd be glad to rent it." We said we didn't know how long we were going to be there. So, he took us upstairs, I think she wasn't walking very well, he took us upstairs. So, when we got back downstairs she said, "I hope you noticed there's no sink in the kitchen." We hadn't noticed it at all. So, we rented it and they were wonderful to us. In fact, when I was in the hospital they would have Shirley down for dinners and things like that. They were very lovely people. They're both gone now, I'm sure.
SSH: How and when did you meet your wife?
EH: She went to New Jersey College for Women, went to NJC. But she only went there two years. That's where I met her. I took her to one of the dances. She was … oh, I know, I had to get a date and I took a date with a neighbor and the neighbor had this other girl coming and they needed a date for the other girl. So, I called a friend of mine in college and said, you know … "Take the girl out." So, it was his brother that took her out, that was it, he didn't do it, it was his brother that was available. And I immediately decided I would change my directions. [laughter] That's how I met her.
SSH: So, you kept up a correspondence? You had proposed before you left for the military?
EH: Well, this … now wait a minute, where am I now? This is when I was in college.
SSH: Right, we backed up. We backed up to the beginning.
EH: That's got to be when I was in college.
EH: Yes, that's got to be when I was in college. Because, we went out West, we were married, because I had come home, got married, spent a couple of weeks at home, then took off in our car, and went to … Ohio. Stayed there, whatever I had to go through, which was quite awhile, but we were forever taking leaves. We'd take thirty days, or twenty days, or … so, we were travelling around. Oh, we went out to see people we knew. We travelled around quite a bit. Then, eventually, we had to leave because they were closing the hospital. So, they sent me to a hospital in Framingham, Massachusetts. Then we drove there and she came with me, same car, still driving, still going, and they were closing … No, they couldn't have been, somebody worked on … in Cleveland they worked on my hand. They did this, that's what happened. Then I went back and I was to go to this hospital to get a clearance or whatever it was, that's right. From there we went back to New Jersey and got out.
SSH: So, what did you do after the war?
EH: Originally, I went to work for Burry Biscuit, in Elizabeth and I was … they gave me a title, gave me a secretary, but I had to punch a time clock. I always resented that. At Burry Bicuit, [I] worked for a guy named Ed (Morehouse?), who I'd known somewhere along the line, and I was there … a couple of years and they were, things were bad. I knew they were bad so, I applied to E.J. Brach and Sons, the candy manufacturers and I was hired by them and given the New England territory, or half of New England. And, let's see, how long was I with them?
SSH: Had your brother been in the war?
EH: I didn't have a brother.
SSH: You did not have a brother?
EH: No. Just a sister. Joy.
SSH: Oh, Joy, I thought you said Joe.
EH: Oh, okay. [laughter] Then…where am I now?
SSH: You were working for Brach candy company.
EH: Yes. So, I got … they gave me this New England territory, which was … I think it was part of Vermont, New Hampshire, half of Massachusetts, and Connecticut. It seems like I had Rhode Island, too. I'm not sure … no, I didn't have Rhode Island.
SSH: And then you went to work for a real estate company?
EH: Yes, after I left Brach, I decided it was a dead end and they were closing up territories. They were going to hire … agents in the areas, and the one area I might have applied for was Wisconsin, or something like that, and I decided I wasn't going to go to Wisconsin. So I applied to (Strout?) Realty and I got … all of New England, I guess, and part of New York State assigned to me. So, I went around and opened offices, that was my job. I didn't know anything about the real estate business. They gave me a fast course.
SSH: What had you majored in at Rutgers?
EH: Economics … Somewhere I listed the things that I majored in, political science, economics … all the ones they would accept.
SSH: So, after the war the real estate business would have been very busy, would it not?
EH: Yes, it was busy. I wish I had stayed in it for longer than I did. Well, I did stay in it quite a while, when you think about it. I changed around with it.
SSH: Where did you and Mrs. Hoe set up house?
EH: Originally, in Cranford, we were just there a year or so. Then we moved to West Springfield, Massachusetts and from there back to Berkeley Heights. So … then I sold that three or four years ago when she was in the hospital.
SSH: So, how long have you had your house at Brant Beach?
EH: Forty-some years.
SSH: So, this is where you came in the summers?
EH: We bought this …yes, we bought this … My family loaned me a few bucks and her family … She'd gotten some money from somewhere. So, we pooled it and bought this, because we always wanted to live at the shore, and she loved the shore, although her family had always gone to the mountains in Maine, or up in Maine somewhere. So, yes, as I say, we've added on to it with the shed out back and the garage out back and the upstairs, which I'll show you, before you go, if you'd like to see it.
Shaun Illingworth: I saw you were quite active in veteran's organizations, the Order of the Purple Heart. What do you have to do with that?
EH: Not the Order of the Purple Heart. I was a past … I hadn't put this in my listing … State of New Jersey, Vice Commander, Military Order of the Purple Heart. I was also the Chapter Ten Commander and … Department Inspector of New Jersey for three years. Let's see, what else? … Oh, also about things I did that I didn't put in there. I was President of [Plainfield Kuwanis]. I think that's about it, Church Club in New York, I belonged to.
SSH: When you received your Bronze Star and your Silver Star, were those for actions in the Philippines?
EH: No. I got one Bronze Star for … that scouting I did on the islands. Everybody … I wasn't on the order, so, when they handed out the medals, they gave out … It was the Legion of Merit, which is, I don't think it's a combat medal. It's more of a non-combat medal, I'm not sure … but, I wasn't on the list, so, I didn't get one. So, my … at that time there wasn't such a thing as a Bronze Star, they had just come out. So, my lieutenant commander, he lined up the whole company one day and presented me with my Bronze Star and the next Bronze Star I got because everybody else got a Bronze Star, let's say for combat … I think that's what I got it for.
SSH: And your Silver Star?
EH: That was for combat. It was gallantry in action, that's what they called it.
SSH: Do you remember the incident?
EH: Yes, very well.
SSH: Can you tell us about it?
EH: Yes, we were driving the Japs out of somewhere and there were a lot of them around. They'd pop up out of holes, you know, you'd be standing and some guy would pop up out of his hole … Some tanks came in and the tanks were drawing a tremendous amount of fire … My guys couldn't do anything, so I said, "I have got to get these tanks out of here." I guess there were two tanks. I went up and banged on the side of the tank, finally got the attention of the driver, and they finally pulled the tanks out. And why I didn't get hit? They say they don't know why I didn't get hit. So, that's how I got it; that was that.
SSH: Were you able to get everybody out?
EH: No. We had a couple people killed, as I recall, that one time. I think one guy went way out, he got killed … I don't know if we even got his body back, I've forgotten. He was an officer … I don't think he was in my company, though …oh, whatever.
SI: When you were in combat and you would push the Japanese back, did you still have a problem with stranglers left behind, people who had hidden in these holes that you mentioned? Or were you able to clean them out?
EH: Well, we got up to where we were supposed to go to … [We] started where we were supposed to be at … and that's where we hit the line with these Japs in the holes, Japs in the woods. There were a lot of Japs around and the guys got pinned down, frankly. So, I had to get the … and they said that the tanks were one of the problems, because they were getting an awful lot of fire. We were right behind the tanks. We were coming, a lot of fire was coming through the tanks, and they felt that it would be very much of a problem to get up there with all that fire coming through the tanks. So, that's why I went up and got the tanks to stop … to move out, not to stop firing, to move out, which they did.
SSH: How much hand-to-hand type of combat were you involved in?
EH: Not much. You find out when you're an officer, this is what I found out … that you've got so much on your mind … you don't have time to … do much on your own. You're looking for … where are we going? what are we doing? where are the machine guns? where are the mortars? One night we were bivouaced on a hill and the Japs were all down the other side of this hill, across the way, and … everybody had dug in and I didn't have time to dig in. So, boy, about the middle of the night I'm lying behind the lines, I wasn't in the front lines, all of a sudden all this … mortar shells and everything started to come in, and we started to fire and evidently it was a … Jap headed up in front of me somewhere. So, he comes by me and I thought it was the first sergeant so I said, "Hey, (Battel?), where the hell are you going?" The guy looked at me and [imitating Japanese language] and he kept on going. [laughter] I think they got him the next day somewhere. I don't know. Where are we now?
SSH: Well, we were just asking about different incidences that you remembered about your time in the Philippines.
EH: I don't know if I can think of anymore.
SI: What kind of assistance were you able to get from the Air Force? Were you ever … What kind of role …
EH: Oh, we got … but, they bombed us themselves every so often. They'd say, "Put out a red flare and we'll bomb beyond it." Well, many times they didn't bomb beyond it. We had guys wounded that way. I never got hit but we had them hit that way. They were mostly Navy dive bombers, SBDs, they called them.
SSH: What kind of encounters did you have with the Japanese Air Force?
EH: Not much. They weren't very strong. They'd send up a few planes once in a while, but they usually got shot down, so they …
SSH: Was there talk, at that point, about going in and continuing the invasion of Japan?
EH: Oh, yes. Yes, we were scheduled to go into Japan, into the worst part of it. I don't think any, many of us would have lived through that. It was in the lower part of Japan that was going to be the first landing and I've forgotten how many divisions. There were a couple of divisions and I've forgotten exactly where we were going in, I can't even think of the name of the point now, but… So, they never did go because the atomic bombs fell … I think they did go, maybe right after … the war was, or (happy?) airlifts, let's put it that way.
SSH: You were talking about the invasion and that your company went to the same place that they would have gone if there had been an invasion of Japan, before the atom bomb.
EH: That's right, yes. I think they went there and saw what would have been. It was frightening. But, they eventually … I'd say most of them eventually got into the capital, Tokyo. That's probably just to give them a … and they were there until they, the treaty was signed, I guess, or whatever it took to do it.
SSH: Part of the occupational forces?
EH: Yes, they were a part of occupational forces and they went back to wherever.
SSH: When you were in the South Pacific, did you ever run into MacArthur?
EH: No, I saw him after the war a couple of times. He never did, he walked in at Leyte Gulf, he didn't come up to where we were, but he was always around, not far away. I don't … maybe I did, I don't recall. But, I do recall … somewhere I think around New Brunswick … or I don't know where it was, but he came up and … came down the street in his car and we all waved at him. I don't know maybe I walked up and spoke to him at some time, I've forgotten.
SSH: As an officer in the Pacific during that time, what did you think of MacArthur?
EH: Well, we thought he was good, thought he was good. He didn't have that much to work with, what he had to work with. They didn't send the equipment. They were sending it all to Europe and that was one of his problems … and they wouldn't listen to him.
SSH: So, how were your supplies there?
EH: Oh, we had supplies. But, there … was a lot of, you know, equipment for battle that we didn't … that they didn't have. They didn't get the planes. They didn't get the … they got the … it seemed like they got plenty of the Navy, but there was a lot of stuff that …
SSH: Did you always have the proper amount of what was needed in ammunition?
EH: Not always.
EH: We were short sometimes. But, I don't say that we ever had real problems with it. It was just the time when, "wait until the Europe war is over and we'll do something over there."
SSH: You really had that sense?
EH: Well, I think everybody had that sense.
SSH: Do you remember when you heard about D-Day?
EH: D-Day, where was I? On my way home … must have been, yes. No, that was the day I left the hospital in New Guinea. Yes, that was the day. As we were on the boat getting ready to go home, they announced it. That was the boat where there were three of us that were combat casualties and the rest were … [I] can't remember the name of that boat. It wasn't a very big one, though.
SSH: You were talking about how you had a good friend who was a radioman for you and his name was Bill Mitchell.
EH: That's Bill.
SSH: Where did you serve with Bill?
EH: Bill was brought into the outfit near the end of the war. He wasn't in the whole thing. He came to … in one of our trips back to … New Guinea, or New Zealand, I'm not sure when. So, he wasn't in it that long.
SSH: So, was he a New Jersey boy?
EH: No, he was from Lawrence, Massachusetts … We just …well, we've become greater friends since the war, because he goes to conventions. We go to Florida together, go to Maine together, or at least he goes and I go. Last year we drove down to Florida together and that's the last time we're ever going to do that. That was in January. This year I drove but, it wasn't January. So, it was good this year but last year it was terrible when we drove together. We drove in his car.
SSH: Now you stayed involved in all of the organizations. What are the ones?
EH: Some of these … Lambda Chi Alpha in New Brunswick was an organization I belonged to but they were closed ten, twelve … well, you know what happened to Lambda Chi, I don't have to tell you that. They're still … I got a thing the other day, they're having some kind of meeting, but I can't … that's a closed book with me. Veterans of Foreign Wars, I'm sort of active down here. I belong to a chapter here. The American Legion … that's where we have our meetings for the Purple Heart in North Jersey, so, I'm active in that one. Active as far as the Purple Heart goes with them. Disabled American Veterans, I am really … a senior member or something … I'm not very … I'm not active in it.
SI: What is your opinion, having been involved in all these groups over the years, of both how they treat veterans and how the government treats the VA?
EH: Well, I think I joined a number of them, because, then you have bigger clout. The more people you have in an organization, then you can go down to Washington and say we got … the Purple Heart is not big, they probably only have about thirty-thousand members throughout the country … The others are a lot bigger but if you go down to the American Legion, or whatever it is, and they … you're one of two-hundred and fifty thousand, or something like that, your chances of having something accomplished are better. And even so, now, because everybody … is dying off all the time and … all these organizations are getting smaller and smaller. There are many organizations that want us to accept all their members into the Purple Heart, but we won't do it.
SSH: Now you were involved in politics up in Massachusetts?
EH: Oh, did I say that? [Laughter] What was happening? Why did I run for politics? Something they were going to do I didn't like. They were going to build something.
EH: I ran for … to the town meeting, which they had to be elected at the town meeting, so, I ran for town meeting and I think in my area there were about four people elected and I came in like sixth. So, that was my last try at politics. No more politics.
SSH: There was one question that I neglected to ask when we were talking about when you had met and married Mrs. Hoe, how many children did you have?
EH: Just the two.
SSH: Can you tell me a little bit about them?
EH: Son …oh, my son, he's a lawyer in Washington … He's a partner in a big law firm. He's about … out of one hundred and forty-eight lawyers, he's about sixth in the standing, sixth or seventh. So, he's done very well. They've done very well and they just bought a home on the Potomac, on the Chesapeake, not the Potomac … Chesapeake … Bay and he's thinking about retiring, pretty soon … as soon as he can. And her father had a big business, which he sold and she inherited money, so they've … I think he got paid more money by the law firm in the last years than anybody else in the law firm …
SSH: And your daughter? You have a daughter?
EH: My daughter, Martha … she is the one who calls me. She was up here yesterday. She's coming back. She is a … oh, brother … she says she was going to change this I think, because I told her to write this thing up differently. She was a nurse counselor. She's an RN. She has a CS and MBA … no, must be something else, but she's got her Masters in something and then I have three great grandchildren. She has one of the granddaughters and then my son has a grandson and a granddaughter … He's … let's see … he's with McKenna and Cuneo law firm in Washington … D.C. My daughter, she's talking about maybe going to California tomorrow … never know. But she's going to make something, somewhere. But, I've been supporting her. She gets a little heavy after a while, but she's a terrific gal, really terrific.
SSH: Now, when the Vietnam War came around, what were your feelings on that and were your children involved at all?
EH: My son was in the army for … but, he never got … He joined the National Guard and he joined it up in Westfield and he went into some training. It was a medical detachment. They sent him down to one of the big hospitals in Texas and they spent training down there and after that he came back. But, then he moved to … took a job in Washington. So, he got a job down there interviewing … I guess, people that needed help in the National Guard down there. So, he was down there. I think he was a sergeant when he got out, or a corporal, or something. He doesn't talk about it much. He doesn't say much about it. He's also a Lambda Chi, too, so am I, so was my wife's father, Shirley's father, and … what else did I have. Nobody else joined … Lambda Chi … in my family.
SSH: None of the grandkids or great-grandkids?
EH: No. They're all various other things.
SSH: Did any of your children think about going to Rutgers?
EH: I brought my granddaughter up, the one that just had a baby. My oldest granddaughter, she's twenty-five now. I brought her up. She had an interview … I got the feeling they would make room for her. I've forgotten who … we went to see, the Dean of something. I've forgotten which hall it was in.
EH: I don't remember … I think they probably would have accepted her, but then she decided … she ended up in West Virginia … Virginia Tech. That's where she met her husband.
SSH: Are there any questions or stories that we forgot to ask you to tell us? [laughter]
EH: I think I've talked long enough.
SSH: Well, we thank you very much for taking time.
EH: I appreciate it. If I think of anything that I left out …
SSH: Well, then let us know.
EH: Which, I probably did. It's probably all messed up.
SSH: Not to worry, we will fix it. All right, thank you so much.
EH: Can I give you a little bite for lunch?
SSH: No thank you. We will end the interview now.
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Reviewed by Bojan Stefanovic 7/5/01
Edited by Sandra Stewart Holyoak 7/6/01
Edited by Edward Sanderson Hoe III 11/01